Sometime I have to go change it for March, March 16th, 17th, 18th.  That that's when we came from Maine to visit our Daughter and we were on Sunday but near St. Patrick's Day and right around noon we came here in this kitchen and we had this for about two hours from uh Maine and we just decided we would stay for St. Patrick's Day and we're sitting in the kitchen room and I said something about something and I couldn't tell you what it was and what I said I couldn't said what I said and everyone thought it was funny that I was looking at this and I didn't know what I said and I knew I was something that didn't make any sense and two seconds everyone else knew there was a problem.  We called a doctor, not a doctor but the uh.... the M M's

Betty

Ambulance

Bob

Yeah and they just decided to get me outta here and I didn't know what was going on when they put... they put me outside with an over in Boston.  And uh... They rolled in there and I didn't know what was going on and they took me into the doctor, the hotel... They took us there and uh that's the last I remembered.  They started putting all kinds of stuff into me and I didn't see em for five weeks and it just came to me and I didn't know what it was and what they did what I was looking at what hotel I'm in I don't know and I think they just put so many things into me that I didn't know if they were looking at me and uh after about five days they decided it was time I go some place else and read about it and uh and just about then as we left that I began to understand something about where we are what we're doing but I didn't see it.  I didn't know where we're going, what we're going to do, but I was looking better than five days so I looked at it and I uh they took me down to see a doctor and put me in and uh I didn't like it, no ones gonna like that I guess but I was there for about three weeks and one day was uh worse and the next day was worser.  So uh we had seen this place and they were trying to help me and I was trying to help and I guess it was better but I didn't know anything except please take me home, so I went down, we went down after about three weeks down in uh the uh South Boston, not South Boston

Louise

Cape Cod, Orleans

Bob

Yeah and uh then I got realized, I was there, that's pretty bad.  I couldn't do anything, I wasn't seeing well.  I had difficult walking standing and I knew it was a big problem and uh we, I just kinda sat there and my wife, my daughter, friends, everyone trying to help me anything pulling things together and uh I wasn't doing much, I wasn't helping anything, and I really couldn't do anything.  I couldn't stand up too well, I couldn't wash by myself without someone helping me so I'll tell you it was both a bad time getting started and it probably was at least a month, six weeks and it was getting better, I couldn't do much but it seemed to be better and uh sometimes it just was terrible but finally after about uh the middle of April, Jan, may, January, march, April uh some asked to come and in and see if I wanted to take, learn any of that and I said uh well I had to do something so I said ok we'll go in the middle of April and friends ca, women came they asked me about what I was learning, what I could do, and I said I'll do whatever I can and as the start of May April we did it for a whole year.  I started working with uh three women helping one something on this and on that type and this and this got better on this woman or as bad as I got and the second and finally there was a woman learning just how to read.  Read.  Read.  They just tried to help me and do it better and they would show me twice a week to go through it and look at it how did you do on working at home on this?  Were you good, were you not so good, do you forget, you don't know what you're doing so we just decided what you could do sometimes, you try to work harder than you I re even wanted to try it because I tried to do it better but you couldn't do it.  I used to be a pretty smart guy (ha ha ha) But we'd start and even for to learn on to something I'd look at and I'd say yep, we're gonna work on this at home and I'd look at it and I'd want to do it and I couldn't do it, Sometimes. And I'd get so mad, and cry and push and week by week by week it got better, not not not wonderful, it was a pain in the neck, it was yelling and Yeah!  It didn't work, but it really was beginning to work and our friends helped me so well and of course my wife, my sister worked so well and they know its better and sometime I can do well but it gets after a year I could see thinking that I could look at that starting with the most difficult thing I could try after a year ago how I was trying to read.  How could I read what anyone was saying, uh, sometimes you figure you're never going do it, sometimes day after day you know its getting better, you know its getting better, but uh I don't know what else I can tell you about the starting on the beginning and working and its hard to say how we can talk to anybody and to me and my my kids how to do this. Are you doing it, well lets all sit down at night or in the morning, mostly in the morning and you try to do it and and they they would look at what I'm trying to do and you know they could tell that its getting better or sometimes not too well and but it was slowly, slowly, and I would hope that anyone as oh oh oh first of all say that I hope no one did what I had to do the first time or had a problem ever but if it if it starts with you or anyone you know working on this I can tell you its awful.  Its when you were starting out when you were a kid it was Ha.  When you're starting it by yourself starting all over again its no game so you do what you can do and all you can do, I can tell anyone to like about this is to say this is what its started and I can tell you fortunately for me its been better, I don't know if its ever gonna be as good as I ever was, maybe not, but uh I'm at seventy, seventy three, if I get to be a hundred and fifteen, I'd probably get up and get it all.    So if there's anybody who would like to talk anything I've done or for start with something I'll be glad to keep going on it.  Uh what are some of the things we've been working on?

Louise

Well, One thing that I wanted to to talk about was um well lets start from the beginning on what aphasia is but we can pick up on that later but one thing that I think is really hard is aphasia and the way people communicate with you and how people treat you since you've had your stroke and what's it like when you see your friends and they come over for dinner and when you go out to dinner with them.

Bob

Yes uh, Some people I have known of them some for almost fifty years ago, some people I've known for ten years ago or whatever.  Some of the people that I know see me say fifteen short a short time ago it like they didn't even know who I am they don't even look at me It's like who's this they're afraid of what happened to me they're afraid of me and they either don't want to talk to me period or just walk down the street they just don't know what to do with me and some of them, thank god, some of these people these men and women would say how you doing and uh I I I I this is great and I try to talk to them and sometimes many times I know I have a difficult time uh talking to our friends and I say that's ok take it easy, if there something else to talk about lets go on to that uh some people say oh  my god can I get out of here somehow but this these men and women not many of them unfortunately and they would know that I have something wrong and they just want to talk to me and they love saying thank heavens they love me talking and if its a problem, No problem, no deal we can talk about that well get on to something else.  It was wonderful, uh just a few people, I always knew when I could see them how its nice and they like it and I liked two of them unfortunately some people that I've known and they're nice people, but they didn't know what to do with me, what can I talk to this guy, Oh my god he can't talk to me there's something happened to him and their gonna sneak out backwards, uh little by little we've tried to do that and its funny uh even almost now I can talk to some people I've known for ten month, ten years some of them still don't know what to do with me they, they don't know what to talk to me, so now that I can talk better and they start talking to me and I say wait a minute, talk to me, talk to me I'm here there's nothing wrong lets talk about it and they think Oh my god, but it finally its taking a number of them just to understand its all right you're doing great and lets key talk and if I'm here to someone they'll look over here.  They don't they wanna don't even know I'm here and I've started to say that to people, for pete's sake Hello, I'm OK and they'll finally its starting to understand that these people are going to do it OK, they might like, hey I don't want a jerk in the first place anyhow, but they'll just say they understand that I can do it. I'm not gonna be as good as I used to be and I can't answer it right sometimes but just relax, just relax we can be all right, and uh then some day I might just say the heck with you.  I'm only kidding.  But it It's great finally people are seeing some people and they will just, I think, say he's OK, they like me my god they just don't know how to talk they don't get back on it's been a bad day and we're trying to be better people, we did what we could and uh all the people the family and these women who've worked me, it just reach the point and they say well Go you're Ok, they know they're done It's time to stop and keep at it and uh that's what we do best.  I don't know if there's something else that we've been working on

Betty

You can talk about your therapy; uh Bob had three women therapists, a physical therapist, an occupational therapist, and a speech pathologist. And the physical therapist was the first to release Bob because he had gotten to a plateau and...

Bob

Yeah, thank god she stopped because she was teaching us oh that woman how to work, do this, Bang Bang and thank heaven we got off with that because she would make me work, she would say this this and hand on this and they would put you right on that thing and finally I'm supposed to get up to twenty six total and I finally get to about twenty two and they said that's enough get outta here but she was the first one

Betty

She was tough, but she was good

Bob

I, I, But I still see her and she laughed, good to talk you, I guess that I'm the only one that I could, that I've been told out of a year I'm the only one at this group that stayed the only one.

Betty

Well that was for speech.

Bob

Yeah, Yeah Uh, she she told me that some people kinda walked in man or woman and they go in, they don't have much they can do, they don't want to do, so forget it, but you kinda, I didn't I never talked when until recently and they said uh these people didn't really wanna do anything then you would find some people and they would come in and they would sit down and they work hard up and on this and they would go for after once, and they never worked at home no she said they come in they took well and thank you see you next time but they wouldn't do anything when they go home, but Uh I guess when I was always a kid I learned how to work to do just what you're supposed to do so uh beginningly I guess one thing on the side we talked about the first woman I saw this woman I was working with and she said hi uh this and that and what's your name bob and she said I'd like to have you sit down and talk to me and write down  your name Bob, so he's sitting across from me and I'm  sitting here and he passed it to me and I held it and I couldn't write BOB and he's saying well uh go ahead whenever you have it when you get to it write down BOB, B, O, B, OK.  OK, So I picked it up and I stills in my right hand and I and I thought and I said Oh my god I can't write down Bob, so I he said just take a look whatever you can do but lets go so she's a tough one she said lets look at it.  But I would hold it and I would write down, OK lets start with B and I'd hold it and after about two or three minutes, I'd work, somehow I'd do (twisting arm around) B, O, B, but it took about ten minutes and the B went here and the O went a little over and the B up.  Well she wrote that down and about a uh week later, it was the time we go and talk to her and say that's the end, and she said I'd like to show you what you saw the first time and he should from his first sheet B, O, B and he showed it to me about six, about a week ago, not even that long and it was just incorrigible, it was just crazy that I saw it and he said I wanted you to see that because I wrote to her the last time I a week ago and I wrote to her at home writing it down and I can still write pretty well and it was about a letter to this woman thanking you and thanks and she said I'll just keep that for ya, so that was great to see some one who really gets to someone for a year, it kills ya, it it it it hurt and because when you're working that's what you're supposed to be you do this but something happens to you and it says Bob, and you go oh my god so its great to uh people who tried and you can do it, If you're lucky, if you're lucky, and you push it you know it'll do for ya, and I hope that anything I can do for anyone, god help ya, ya do well too.  So that's what kinda from starting with number one down to as far as we've gone so far, so its uh, for for me its been I'm not a bologna but it was hard working and uh th th th these people and my friend, my wife and my kids have come here and uh they make me, not made like, yeah you better get on that and they know that its hard for me and uh everybody's had a chance with me, a lot with me.  The people I work with and friends everybody is trying to help you and uh some people that I know can't do it, even if they want to they can't do it and I feel so sorry and I think some people probably I think could have done better and they didn't try enough, its too bad and some things I may never find I'm ever gonna be as well but I know that I've done better I know I can do better, and I hope its better, on top of that but all you can do, yeah, so uh is there anything we can talk another question.

Betty

All I can say is that a lot of Bob's uh achievement was his motivation, he did, he was motivated, he did his homework everyday and he met his goals every month at therapy.

Bob

Yeah he told me that you know, he would tell me there gonna be some bad days and there's some days you don't even wanna, I said the heck with it, you know I just wanna sit there and said, I didn't even want to hear anything about that and this woman is so smart that she would tell immediately that I wasn't gonna just pass and get outta here she'd tell you something that think on quickly and she would get you that she knew that you're gonna like what is funny for this or you're gonna enjoy it but uh and he could tell immediately you say oh my god inside him this guy is not gonna make it today so just forget about it here's something funny you're gonna like looking at this or how about this one do you remember this one with the movies, you know you do that and he says oh yeah I know all of these guys going back fifty years ago, I can tell you this one and she knew but she knew she'd make you pull it off and she isn't goin get on someone and say hey you stupid, he knows immediately you're not doing too well today forget it lets have some to enjoy it not enjoy it but he knows what you're gonna like and this woman was so clever you know she just knew in a second uh what can be done and she knows she got me a couple a times anyhow, and I just say, I didn't work yesterday, and it didn't work and I don't care and she said well OK, she just, she'd get you going again but she always enjoyed that down medium its gonna be higher, she'd say every month she'd uh check you through because if you're not making it after a month they just say well this is as well as you're gonna hit it and that's through, so uh so at the end of every month or so he would making sure that we were seeing it, that I was doing better, not the same or worse, in for a month and overall you're doing better and as long as it was better they would keep me working, if I couldn't do any more or, just goofing off, see ya later that's the end thank you.  So its been for me or for anyone that's trying to do it better and as long as you can and right now boy you're putting it on the ball, if you don't do it and people say that's that's OK, its been nice talkin to ya and that's the end so unfortunately I get to the point until a week ago that it looks like you've done about as well but you'll do better as well as they'll do they're not saying you won't do better they said you do better but its enough to you to keep at it with yourself and that's about all I can say, So Uh is there anything else were talking about

Betty

Well you were talking about improvement and we were told that the first six months would show the most rapid improvement and then things would slow down but it was actually the first year there was the most improvement, now it has slowed down but we've been told that there's always gonna be improvement at a much slower pace but there is gonna be improvement, its always there

Bob

This was kinda about nine months ago I didn't realize we were being, I I I guess I thought in a matter of time I was going to go right back to I used to be, I thought at some point its going to be just as I was forever and then I began to realize and I was told that you've done faster you're going up you're going up its been wonderful you're doing a good job and now you're going to start like that and as well now you're gonna be like that better but isn't gonna be thrown on you so quickly and uh unfortunately some doctors I've talked to and they will say, Oh you're not gonna make it you know and I'm thinking to myself you know have I been told that, I don't like people telling me that you can't do any better more than once they're gonna have to tell me that but this doctor and he just said well uh you're not gonna do better than that and I didn't like that, and I think he's wrong  and maybe he's smart I don't know but I think it's time for everyone to find out how well is it at the time I found out.  Besides I'm not seeing that doctor anymore, but he's a good man but now we're doing it with other persons.  Anybody else who are in...

Betty

Well did you talk about the job that you have you volunteer at the church

Bob

Is ah, I've never done that before I've always worked for people uh when I was going at night working with people helping people and uh I always liked that and I think that they were smart to try and help someone about doing it right but uh now I don't have much to do with that so, a friend of mine asked me if I wanted to come over every two weeks and uh we're gonna meet with this uh church group head for uh basically women the things are made for them uh to sell for people, I

Betty

A thrift shop

Bob

Yeah and people were givin to the church for nothing it was done well and offered to people on very small amounts any one to five dollars and some of them were done very well and a friend he's a little older than I am I guess but he said have some fun and he didn't say for fun he said going to take a look and and I said Oh my god I don't like that kind of thing but uh this was a good friend I talked to mom and Oh come on take one take a look at it so I went over there and that was fun I did uh III liked walking inside and I said what would be almost all women would be buying these things and I like to talk to women and have them look at eff one cent uh a dollar five dollars and its nothing but I try and get people to and how would you like to look at the things that we're showing here and uh this over here most of the guys that I go with they just come in you could just write down five dollars they say OK bye, I like to walk around with the women and try to point things to them, Oh by the way have you seen how this looks.  Uh no I guess it was back near the winter and this woman seven years I guess she's going on a trip in the water and I she said she said have you seen these over here and I said you'd like looking in that I said I can help you carry it down I said you are gonna like this one I know its just the right size for you and she said well Ok well I'll take a look so I took her old jacket off and this is still the winter time and I hold it on and I said lets go take a walk and look over at how this looks and I would have fun talking with people like that, so IIIII I have done it a number of times but its something I didn't like anything to do and I didn't wanna do it but my wife and a friend of ours said why don't you take a look, so I've been doing that and its every two weeks would be for three hours and uh its some time its not kinda nothing to say but because people aren't around in the winter time but now you see more and more in the summer time and uh its fun but uh so look if something's coming take a chance see if it works and I've tried it, so that was a good time.

Betty

Yeah you've enjoyed that

Bob

Because some of the women, some people they don't want to talk and I say that's OK some people have to come in for fifteen twenty minutes and really all they want is to talk to anyone and it was great and you know they'd talk about this and that and go on and on vacations and have you read about this which I've not trouble reading anyway, but uh she loved anybody she would come over for about two dollars and she would take uh thirty minutes and just talk with you and it was fun with me and there the perese is its fun but its a been a funny thing, I never believed it the first time I went oh

Betty

No, no you didn't want to do it

Bob

I said Oh come on give me a break, ha ha but that has worked uh, I don't know is there anything else

Louise

Well how about when you're working with um that I was really surprised that you were able to do the taxes and

Bob

Yeah well I used to be in uh that was my work, I went to uh

Louise

GE, General Electric.

Bob

Well GE please don't tell too much, but I went there and I couldn't, I couldn't the uh a a a, accou...

Louise

Accountant

Bob

Yeah accountant things and uh, of course when I first started a year ago, I didn't know what I could have done, I'll kid much about it but uh this year uh mom's looking it and uh I'd like to help this so what I I I started looking at it and its funny maybe of all the other things reading reading and the books and this and that I can look at the GE stuff and I can write down uh uh Eb Y what is it

Betty

You talking about end of the year things, fiscal year

Bob

IML uh I can't think of it

Betty

Fiscal year end

Bob

No, IMS, no

Louise

IRS

Bob

Yeah, that's OK but uh I says you know I it takes me a while to more than a little to look at it but I could figure out how it works from other years and I'd look up this and that and I could write it down and I co it was kidding me it was helping better I didn't expect it I thought well I don't know and I'll probably never find it but I can pick it down well and write down and I also can you know I used to be B O B but now I can write down and I can write things down make out these down this that move that over so you begin to get on that doing better more than I expected to happen but god knows when you're doing something and then uh uh its going well yeah so uh you never know when its going to work and its been your just kidding me I just got it and I even get some money back in the end, so uh what else are we on.

Betty

Well when we go out to diner at a restaurant bob takes care of the bill, he figures out the tip just in his head its incredible

Bob

Then its how much do we even and the IR and the amount and I was looking just put that much and sometimes you want to give more and some not too much not too high in it but uh unfortunately I don't have to sit down and say well now let's in ten minutes figure how much we should give her check on these people but its going well and uh its best not to put the money in don't put cash into it just put it on the check you never know if its gonna be right or not but uh its funny some things help better and some things aren't maybe you don't try hard enough who knows but uh some of these things uh I hope anyone how's helping me can check it on and stay with it kid try it if you can unfortunately with some people and sometime I did some of this wanted to do it and you tried and damn it that thing you can't remember you can't remember how it says it and you keep trying to tell yourself and finally he told me don't kill yourself, if it doesn't work stop.  Because I would sit there and I would try for an hour and a half looking at one word and uh the woman he just walked in and he just cut it out, if it doesn't work don't try it, try it again later but don't kill yourself and it finally took me and say OK and I guess it doesn't work because it doesn't work so don't kill yourself and it took me a long time more than it should have I guess, to tell people don't kill yourself, if you can't do it, you can't do it and that's what you try to do, so uh but that was something to fall on

Betty

Yes, well you still have your intellect; you still have your memory.

Bob

Well that was the problem because, once it kinda wakens you up uh because when you come from nothing and become to come quickly on something's and you understand inside what's saying. You know. You know. It should be working right.  Even today you know it should be better but you know sometimes it doesn't work.  You could be better tomorrow or the next day or even quarter as good you have to uh not kid yourself

Betty

His therapist said occasionally he was hitting road blocks and those are the times when he'd be very frustrated and angry, when he hit these road blocks and occasionally he couldn't do that week at therapy what he could have done the week before even a month before like it had just lost he just lost it but then those things all came back and that's just all part of the process.  It's just all part of it and uh so once he learned that then all of the frustration and anger left him although I know he still has a lot of frustration and anger about it but it gets a little less and a little less but basically its I can't believe its a year and the progress he's made.

Bob

Yeah some of the things that still push me uh and I can't do anything about it, I can't drive, I can't drive my car.  Now that's standard and uh I see the doctor probably at least every three months he'll uh among other things you know check my er they would have me check how how this is and this one and is it piece up down and the first time he said its not not too good, its not, you can not drive period, don't even think about it you're not driving and here again you think oh its probably gonna get better well off the next trip they checked it and they said it looks better but don't touch it, don't drive and well I'll seeing you again in about three weeks or so and

Betty

We go in June

Bob

And they'll look at it and I know what they're gonna tell me but here again the doctor said some of the people we're working with, I hate to tell you that other person is never gonna take this and he said I know with you it can possibly be better understand mice it could be, so it gives me the chance to give hoping and I know that our doctor said unfortunately some people they're never gonna make it, they will never see the car driving and I know its been a year now a little over and uh its frustrating but I could do something but if you can't make it you can't make it, its all you can do so we'll be seeing him as many times as we can to see how we doing is it better, the same, or that's probably it that's all we can do, so all the things you learn you have to understand this is it and don't kid yourself in some things they'll say its gonna be better maybe it will get better, OK I understand that and that's all you can do, but uh I'll try, I'll try it, so I hope maybe maybe even this summer, I don't know but it'll be great even if they say don't go to California OK but if they learn just around locally

Betty

Well, Bob has no peripheral vision on his right side at all and its called a field cut and its very common with that kind of a stroke that bob had which was a cerebral hemorrhage and uh the optomologist is checking it, so like he said it was better last time so we'll go again and have it checked again and see what happens

Bob

All you can think well maybe it will that's all you can hope for OK who else we killing here

Louise

Well how's you're reading how do you find reading after a year.  I know you love to read the newspaper you always read those and

Bob

I know it's just from zero to better but uh some things it's still slow.  I was two months; two years ago I could read through all the paper, New York Times, uh Globe, local papers. boom boom boom ok that bang and I started with zero again, I couldn't do anything, I couldn't see what he's saying the New York Times, I read those for years and now I look it down and I couldn't, I couldn't at the funny ones, I couldn't do it and probably about six six months ago I would pick up the kids and trying to look what they're saying and Nowwww some and then slowly slowly I gettin better and then unless they were too long I could look a movie thing that's funny and that's great even if they're not too funny there to look at em but you've gone from six months to a lot better and they will say oh yeah festives I read those its funny yeah so you never know when you try and when its beginning  better and some of the times you say I don't know what I'm doing on this one but I uh fuh but uh something else you can try what you can do

Louise

I think you started off in the newspaper reading the sports page, isn't that what dad would first do

Betty

Yes

Louise

Reading the red sox score or the patriots

Bob

No the first was going to GE

Louise

Oh to GE.  To your stock

Bob

Do we have any money in there, No but I tried that uh trying those I look at red sox and uh I think some important things but uh some of the things you know your kidding kid you know you got like I used as I said pick up and joom joom joom that and that I can't do it anymore maybe and here again I think it's gonna get better but uh maybe I'll never get up to New York Times.

Betty

Bob, You're looking at the New Yorker now, and you're reading the cartoons and you understand em

Bob

No that wasn't New York Times that was

Louise

The magazine

Bob

Yeah

Betty

Every as soon as that comes every week.  You look at them

Bob

So, you know, you just little by little by little by little its working better usually on something but uh from you stop zero, that's where you start and then it comes up on ya and if someone is lucky go for it.  That's all, I'm not a doctor all I can tell people is that if you push it and you can do it god help ya please try it and its gonna help you.  If you try if you're lucky a lotta people will help you too but its up to you your really I mean if a lot of people like to do it and you say no I'm gonna go watch the movies, too bad, so its trying to do it god help you. So anybody working on

Betty

I think you've covered everything Bob; I really do, like how do you feel now after a year having had a stroke

Bob

I hate it, I'm not kidding, I'm not kidding you, uh made almost zero almost dead, apparently it was almost dead, uh to where I am.  That's terrific, do I like it better than I was before two years ago, I like it a lot better that way, If I can do anything I was for years and years and years that's the best, you'll like that but if you're starting off and you can't and you can't do anything if you're lucky you can make it hard, how good its gonna be I can't tell ya, I can't tell you but, If I'm lucky I know I'm gonna be better yeah, that's all I can tell

Betty

Very well said

Louise

Very Good, yep

Mores

Do you think you could talk about this house and how you were born here?

Bob

Oh, About Here, sure uh I might have said when we were having lunch a couple of hours ago but I was born in South Boston it was the one thing I was lucky in and uh my mother and my sisters my father and my mother my self and four brother and one sister and uh this is where we were born and uh here we are on the second story.  Down stairs is where I was born and not by the doctor not that the doctor would be here, he would be down stairs and uh that's where we've been.  I was talking just recently about my brother Joe he was born and I was three and he was seen by the doctor and he was just over he was a baby born and they put him in the kitchen to warm him up so he'd be a baby so uh I uh we've been a wonderful spot out here been out by the water and uh but I've been lucky with all of my family and unfortunately my daughter my mother died when she was forty two, so I was only six years old when she died so it was my father and five boys and a daughter and uh that's how we lived here and we uh, it was a great great place to be uh all the people I love here and uh my wife and my family, my sister is eighty three she's down stairs and uh its really something for me to walk in here I'm seventy seventy three I can walk out here and remember everything that's here yeah under this here and uh my aunts were here and I was the one person who was impossible so when he looks say here you better get that right with that color along the top here that is not black and below it is not to be just that perfectly exactly  and I'm the only one who can do it don't god knows how but that's uh how I used to do it uh years and years ago so its uh something to be here and uh its just wonderful uh we'll be going to church in about an hour ago and right across is where we go to church here actually they died, they were burned down before was these new churches

Louise

Church

Bob

Church but I was lucky I went to uh high school uh elementary school was walking down the street one block and uh I was lucky enough o be shown by the priest across here to go to Boston College high school and uh I was lucky to begin by the priest uh uh no money and then I went to Boston College and after that I went into a lot of fun in going into what the hell

Betty

Korea

Bob

Korea and I had to do that way over there now I can still look at pictures of them above South of North Korea that's where I was and they finally turn it flat I was up above that with some of the other guys so that wasn't a lot of fun being but then I came back and I went to uh

Betty

Bentley, Bentley College

Bob

Bentley yeah and then I started with GE and I worked there for 35 years and when I was just just about thirty uh

Louise

Sixty, Sixty

Bob

Sixty-One.

Louise

Sixty-One you retired.

Bob

I just said its time to have some fun and quit and I'd been there for 12 years at GE gone at uh Carol, Carol Korea you know what I'm trying to

Louise

At Cap Cod for 12 years

Bob

Yeah, so I've been there for 12 years and I'm lucky enough to be there it's a wonderful time but uh kids I grew up here.  Wonderful people some of them have died some of them moved out of Boston to some place else but many of them I still know from seventy years ago I can still see them and talk to them wonderful people yeah

Mores

OK, This tapes gonna end, so that's an hour.  I can put another tape in.

Bob

That's enough

Part 2

Louise

Its been like for our family and um I had always wished that and my mother can tell you about this.  Is that when you first find out there's someone's had a stroke that you love and aphasia is I wish when you are in the emergency room or the ICU that someone would just hand you a box and say OK here is everything you need to know about aphasia, you know, read these books this is what to expect and what not to expect and none of us had heard of aphasia before before this and I think we're all very bright well read people, but we had when the doctor first said "aphasia," we looked at each other like what does that mean.

Betty

No idea what it was, no idea at all

Louise

Nothing

Betty

As a matter of fact the only real information we got was from the aphasia website and the National Stroke Association website.  Uh the doctors would just kind of skim over it as if we were supposed to know about this and I never realized until about six months ago that stroke victims that have aphasia or have cerebral hemorrhages they're only 16 percent of stroke victims.  All the others have the clots that um, you know, give them a debilitation on their usually right side.  They can't use their legs or their hand for some reason.  So it was a learning experience for us to find out what aphasia was and it's a mix up in the brain, and some people call it word salad.  Uh, the person knows what he's trying to say but its not coming out the way he wants it to come out.  And that's like a pretty simple explanation but nobody ever told us that.  So, uh, I think Louise was the one who did most of the work on the website with the aphasia group and I did things on the National Stroke Association and we both get the National Stroke Association magazine and that's very helpful, but there again the National Stroke Association magazine gives very little coverage to aphasia

Louise

Or Hemorrhages

Betty

Because its such a small segment of strokes.  So, I don't know how you get the word out.  I hope we don't have an epidemic really on these things like but I think people should at least know the name.

Louise

Well I know that when we were, dad was in the ICU for 5 days and I mean you're just, you know, twirling your, you can't think straight and at the same time you're trying to figure out what he has and somebody who has aphasia and can't talk.  You know, we found that somebody has to be in the hospital room with him all day long because if doctors and physical therapists come in the person with aphasia or who has just had the stroke can't talk, and how are they gonna know what he's like or how he's progressed because you don't spend a lot of time with these therapists in the hospital um and you have this this week when you're in there and you're trying to figure out what you're next step is going, checking out rehabs, you don't really know what aphasia is.  It's just a really confusing time and your emotions are sky rocketing as it is, I mean, you're distraught.  It's a very serious situation that we don't know if he's gonna make it or not.  So, it's um we really had to learn everything on our own I think.

Betty

Yes we did

Louise

We really had to get on the Internet.  I had one cousin who offered to get on the internet and try to find some information, but we pretty much did it all on our own and researched and where we thought he should go for for your rehabilitation at Brain Tree, but um, but you're really left to manage your own care.  I mean, you're really left to figure it out on your own what you're gonna do and what my mother said about getting the word out aphasia is um, when I was doing reading recently, and mom you might have read this in one of the books, is that a million people in the United States have aphasia and that's more people than have Parkinson's disease and Parkinson's disease I can tell you if you interview someone walking up the street they'll probably tell you they've heard of it.  They probably couldn't tell you what it is or how someone gets it or how they're treated but they heard, they hear the word and I know for people like actors like Michael J Fox are very visible and I think you need sometimes a celebrity where people will really notice and say, "oh ok so that's what that is," and I think he's done a great job with it and he's testified in front of congress and aphasia's really new to us.  So, I don't know if before this year someone's testified in congress.  I kind of doubt it.

Betty

I kinda doubt it

Louise

Because nobody seems to know what it is but um and I was even surprised a few nights ago um another actor David Hyde Pierce from the sitcom Frasier was testifying in congress for Alzheimer's and I know there's Four million people have Alzheimer's.  That's a lot more visibility um but there's like no voice for aphasia so

Betty

And also aphasia is not just stroke victims but brain injuries.

Louise

Yeah, that's right.

Betty

So, it's not just a person who's had a stroke.  So, it covers a broader spectrum a broader spectrum also, but I don't know how to get the word out.

Louise

Well I hope that this by doing this, what we're doing today reaches people to inform them, people who don't know anything about it, and people that are suffering from itÉ But um but just reading a little bit about it um aphasia that I didn't know its been around for centuries.  Early Egyptians suffered from aphasia, but they didn't know, obviously know what it was anymore than what the average person knows what it is today in 2002, but um, but it's basically a language disorder and I didn't realize that language covers so many different things; it's not just speaking its writing, its reading, its um signals or pantomime and so I know that when I'm trying to explain to somebody that my father has aphasia and they've never heard of the word before people just really kind of at first think its a speaking it's just you can't speak but it's a lot of things, you can't read or um, you know, depending on your physical ability what you can do in that respect, but it covers everything to do with communication and how you talk to people and that's huge.

Betty

There's a lot of not understanding and if I can't understand Bob I'll say, "show me," and if I still can't understand a lot of times if I write it down then he will understand then and so there are all sorts of ways to get around this noncommunication but he's just he's just been getting better and better about communicating and then also I'm with him all of the time so sometimes I just know what he means where with somebody else wouldn't and he knows what I mean.  So, we do, we are able to communicate quite well.

Bob

One of the things we were just talking on our break of probably ten week and this woman was just starting with our friend and I think she was just about the about the age I was I guess and she had just starting off.  We saw her.  I was leaving and she was starting to work on talking and I knew immediately the poor woman didn't know what she was talking about uh what can she do and I waited about a minute or so and said, "Hi how are ya doing I bet your doing better" and, "just get to work and it'll be fine for ya."

Betty

I remember her

Bob

And I said, "your friend she's going to do well for you so keep at it," and a woman who was working I could tell her she was almost not crying but she knew it was good just a regular person walk in and say, "you're gonna do ok you'll be ok."  I only saw her twice I think and she realized that she knew I was helping.  She just, I'm not a bologna I knew that I would love to help her if I could anything but uh she understands she really does that someone that she starts on and I said, "it's very difficult," and for anybody just looking and what can I do she's gonna do it.  I think if anyone gives her a chance I think she's gonna be fine, if she can.  I mean you can kid yourself and it maybe its not gonna be great but I think most people if their lucky she had a good one.  I think she's gonna do well because she.

Betty

I think so

Bob

She could understand that.  She could listen and she understand that someone is saying I know its tough and it's been better and I said, "stay on it go ahead your ok," and she understood that so I did remember her.  I may never see again.  Who knows?

Betty

Who knows?

Louise

Right.

Mores

Did you have anything else?

Louise

Yeah I've got a lot of stuff

Louise, Bob, Betty

Ha

Louise

You might want to take a walk around the island or something

Bob

I'll be at nine o'clock

Betty

Ok, let me just.

Louise

Most of my things are like I wish somebody I could pop a video a tape in a VCR when this happened and I could just watch it and someone say, "ok this is what your going to expect this is normal if you feel this way," and that's kinda what my thing is here is just kinda talking maybe to some people just to explain what it is and then secondly what to expect emotionally and and physically and kind of time frames that we went through and um so some of its kind of factually, but um, I don't know.  I thought I would just start by talking about just strokes and I never even really knew what a stroke meant until my father had one and my mother's mother had a stroke and I had no idea what really a stroke was or what you go through and the type of the damage that you can get from a stroke: paralysis, vision problems, language problems, um blindness, seizures, lose of hearing, and and I know that that my grandmother had a very hard time.  She could talk, but she was paralyzed on her right side and I I can't even stand the word stroke.  I don't like it.  I don't think it even gives you a good idea of what you go through and I know like a lot of places like the Stroke Network is trying to change the name of stroke.  They have a lot of articles on it and making it called like a brain attack

Betty

A brain attack.  Yes.

Louise

So that people have a better idea of what it means.  Like, I think when you hear cancer you know what cancer means and if you hear heart attack you know what that is but stroke I think you always kind of thought of it as well that happens to people when they get older and like what does that really matter, um, but a lot of young people have strokes and like mother said people have it from like car accidents its not just um, you know, like an aneurysm or a blood clot or something like that it could be from a head injury.  So, I, I don't know, I just, um they say that stroke is the third large, the third biggest reason why people pass away.  That heart attacks are first and cancer and then stroke, but nobody really takes stroke seriously or at least people that I talk to.  Because you can tell peoples reaction when you say, "oh my father had a stroke," or, "someone had a stroke," you know, it doesn't get I don't think the impact as when some says I have cancer.  Do you find that?

Betty

Oh yes, I find that definitely yes

Louise

So, so

Betty

That's also only old people have strokes.

Louise

Yep, and um like my mother already covered about the type of stroke that my father had that was a hemorrhage and that only 15 percent of people have it and 85 percent have an iscemic, and I also find that in a lot of the readings that you do in trying to research strokes and aphasia its like you wanna find a story that matches what happened to my father like a model.  Like, ok this person had a hemorrhage and how did they do with their aphasia but mostly things are written about people that have had iscemic strokes I found.  So you find you're kind of limited in that respect in trying to get information.  Never the less trying to find information on aphasia.  Um so that, that's kind of frustrating there and um one thing that I wanted to talk about and my father already talked about was communication and that's like a subject, a subject for me alone that I'm really interested in and at my last job we did a lot of work in team building and communication and I, and I can find a pattern in the way that my mother and my father talk about people and the way they react to you or don't react to you and that communication is hard just on its own I think without even having a disability or damage and I think a lot of people aren't really good at communication. Um, I don't think people in general are good listeners.  I think that when people are talking they're, when you're having a conversation people are, already thinking about how I'm gonna respond to what you're saying.  So I think its tough just basically with people that don't have any damage to their brain and trying to communicate never the less with somebody who has a deficit.  So I find that it's really frustrating when I hear about from my mother or father is my father trying to go out socially and the way people the people react to you or don't react to you and I find it maddening some times.  I get so angry because to me people are so unaware and so unperceptive about how to communicate.

Betty

They're embarrassed.  I think that's a go word for it.  I think they feel embarrassed.  They don't know what to say so as a result they say nothing and I can really understand how some people feel.  They're uncomfortable and when you're in an uncomfortable situation you wanna get out of it and that's what they do.

Bob

Yeah, I remember in South Boston in December uh there a party and it was a seventieth birthday and a friend of ours I've known my whole life she's down here talking and uh and uh we went to this party December and she loves me.  I know she is a wonderful person but she didn't know what to say and I couldn't believe it.  I couldn't.  I mean, I can't say anything to her but I just don't think she would say, "how you doin bob its ok when he got when he," but it didn't work.

Betty

No, it was easier for her to say nothing upside just say hello and then pass on yeah

Bob

But it was funny uh she's here with her friend uh her husband went to Boston College with me and I can talk to her uh Joe

Betty

You talked to him

Bob

Yeah and if I wasn't too well he's well lets talk about this.  I have seen him off and on bang bang for years and years and years and years and his wife she could talk.  I've know her my whole life just about and when I saw her she's it's like my god she doesn't know what to say to me and it's it's pathetic I shouldn't say pathetic but.

Louise

It is pathetic, I'm sorry it is

Bob

I I I, know, I know she's like well please sit down I'll stand and talk and she doesn't know what to say.  It it it was too bad, I'd have to say it's too bad that that she loves talking to me really a good person and somehow she doesn't know how to talk to me and I couldn't figure that but I've got to understand with some people it doesn't work and I don't know what you can do sometimes.

Betty

It'll be interesting to see other people in this film and if they have the same reactions that you do to the reactions that people have.  It'll be interesting.

Bob

Yeah its uh some it's funny that people that you've known for seventy years that would love you to both of us would talk to us after a year and they don't know what to say.  They know that they want to and it doesn't work.  I don't understand but unfortunately that's.

Betty

Doesn't work yeah

Louise

Well I think and I found this a lot in my reading is that um I think when people see someone who has a problem speaking they think that they've lost their mind, that they're not intelligent anymore, and and one thing about people that have aphasia is that they're still intelligent they're still the same person inside

Betty

Bob do you have that little card that I gave you to put in your wallet?

Louise

Oh did you get one of those.  Where did you get that?

Betty

Yes I did. From therapy.

Bob

Don't give them money.

Betty

I won't give them, just give me that card that I gave to you.  This is a card from the aphasia group.  Oh here it is.  It says, "if you have a problem," well first of all Bob's name and address and emergency contact is on the back and it's from the National Aphasia Association.  On the front it says, "please take time to communicate.  I have aphasia a communication impairment my intelligence is intact.  I am not drunk, retarded, or mentally unstable."  And it says, "How you can help.  Give me time to communicate.  Speak simply and directly to me.  Do not shout it does not help.  Ask yes no questions," and then you check these little things that maybe apply to you.  I checked that, "speaking takes a little more time.  Comprehending speech is difficult. And writing key words helps."  This is in Bob's situation. So if he ever is in a situation where he's by himself and he has a problem he can show this and perhaps the people he's trying to talk to or communicate with will take the time to read that and understand that he's alright, he's alright.

Bob

Well if anyone has a night for that I'd be glad to see it.

Betty

Well the National Aphasia Association has those.  I got that from uh therapy.

Bob

Yeah, I'm glad you remembered that.

Betty

Yeah

Louise

Well I would say say to people that are reluctant to talk to people who have aphasia is that I think it just gets in this category of scary subjects, you know.  People are afraid of death, people are afraid to talk to someone who has cancer, I think people are just afraid because they don't understand what the condition is and I can understand that but the ignoring part really, you know, gets me angry.  It gets me angry when people ignore people who have a communication disability or condition and um I would just say to people is just try just just do it just, you know, be patient listen.  You have to really listen and like I said I don't think people generally listen in a daily conversation very well.  So, you really have to make an effort and I think that you have to have it in your heart to really want to communicate with somebody who has a learn, I mean not a learning a um uh, a speaking problem and it is uncomfortable and its scary.  Like you said mom people might get embarrassed but to me the feeling that somebody has of uncomfortablity can't compare to what somebody has who's going through what my father's going through or for someone who has cancer and I think there's a way to ask people respectfully, you know, I'd really like to talk to you about your situation if you feel comfortable and of course somebody like dad when you were like three or four months a lot of the sentence and things we asked you were like yes and no questions

Betty

Yes always yes and no.

Louise

So of course in the beginning if you have other family members or friends that you want to encourage them to interact is you know a lot of it will be just yes and no questions because you're just not that like you are today.  I mean your conversational skills have obviously so much better than when you first came home to Cape Cod.

Bob

I remember uh we first came back home and I just said to myself, "hey pal, you gotta wake up.  If you just sit there watching TV that's what you're gonna get."  So I just figured I know I don't know much of anything but I'll try what I can do it because I'm not kidding.  I just figured if you don't get going its gonna be terrible I mean you just sit there and look at the movie the rest of your life and that's what you're gonna get if you're not kidding.  So I hate it.  I know, I know its hard but I started going to school uh almost right away after we came back here and, you know, if some one helps you and you try it you get what you can do and that's all I can say.

Betty

Well, I said before Bob, you were motivated.  I think that's the secret too.

Bob

And I still work

Betty

And you still work

Bob

You know one of the funny things that one of the doctor says is, you know you've got to clean up the dishes every night and I'm telling you now it probably taken me about maybe fifteen minutes.  I'll be working on it about five minutes and I have to sit down and take a and I come back and I didn't think it would ever be.  There'd me two people going for dinner and they told me I was to wash it and uh they just said you'll do it and it was hard doing it but its its someone to tell you how to do it and I did that but I did my whole life next door here one of those kids they were five six kids and you would be and no soup dishes, I mean the machines.

Betty

No dishwasher.

Bob

We didn't have that and we still won't have it, but uh that was just automatic, you know, you clean up here you wash this and done right and you'd be on the ball and I'd been doing that ever since helping and went back to the doctor and the doctor said, "you better do that and clean up the dishes every night" and I said, "God help us I've been my whole life doing that," but he said, "it not be easy but get going on it," and it would take me about fifteen minutes to uh cleaning the dishes and I have to think now not think about it I can remember it and now I couldn't believe it was hard to do that.  Just uh, but the doctors would tell you how to do it and if you fool around and you don't do it its too bad you've got to do it and it uh it comes off because I didn't expect to be so hard and you know it would take me fifteen to twenty minutes

Betty

I know

Bob

In case of the time to try and get cleaned up I may have not even been the washing.  I mean it would be sleeping.  Yeah.

Louise

Do you guys wanna keep going?

Betty

Fine, we have to leave here at a quarter of four.

Louise

OK. I just want to run through this laundry list ok.

Betty

OK.

Louise

This is a laundry list that I put together for people like you and me mom who were all of the sudden in the middle of this.  Of course dad, too.  But trying to figure out what to do and um these are just kind of bullet points and I'll try not to um read them as much as I can.  I'll try to talk about it but.  I think that um aphasia's one of the most agonizing frightening situations you can find yourself in and I found that nothing in aphasia is certain um that no two people suffer identical damage.  So, a doctor's not going to be able to tell you that.  Like my mother said some doctors said six months and your recovery is pretty much where you're gonna stay and that's not true and I think the uncertainty is one that drives you crazy and trying to get through this is because you don't know one day to the next if that's gonna be where you kind of stop.  Where you stop um recovering.  When you stop learning to read or to speak and I know that a couple speech pathologists that I became pen pals on the internet with told me that if they had a dollar for every time a doctor said that this is the way you're gonna be that they would be millionaires.  And its just um, it's just to keep hopeful and not like my father said is I can't listen to someone who's gonna tell me that this is the way its gonna be after a year.  That there's always a possibility that things are gonna get better and I wanted to say to people that talking is very tiring and fatigue is a big part of it I think in the first I don't know nine months would you say mom

Betty

Oh fatigue is a big part of it to the patient yes, they get extremely tired, extremely tired.

Louise

Like my father didn't stop taking naps until about like a month ago and

Bob

Yeah.

Louise

The fatigue I think and being tired is much better.

Bob

Yeah.

Louise

But that talking is really wearing it takes a lot of energy a lot of cerebral energy just to get out a few thoughts.  Like, by the time I think someone thinks of what they're gonna say and it comes out of your mouth it can be jargon.  Like, I'm trying to remember back to when, you know, even in the kitchen when you first had your stroke the type of jargon that came out was like nothing we'd ever heard before.  I mean it wasn't like a foreign language and um, you know, not until we could really understand more than yes or no or hello until maybe the fourth or fifth month that you couldn't understand um people better but it just takes a lot of energy and I think its very exhausting for people who are trying to learn to how to talk again.  And one thing that I found is that I asked myself a lot of questions.  Is, does my father still remember me?  Does he recognize me?  And because I didn't know that, I didn't know that my father was still intact inside.  I don't know that he remembers things, you know, this isn't until only the last three or four months to know that his personality is the same, he's got the same great sense of humor.

Bob

Oh, cut it out.

Louise

I know and and at first that I, the first couple months were tough because I didn't think he remembered who I was.  It was really hard and I want to say to people that even though they can't communicate with you they know who you are they do remember everything

Betty

He just couldn't he couldn't say your name but he as soon as he saw you but

Louise

Oh no

Betty

He couldn't say your name

Louise

He couldn't say my name um and I remember the first day you said my name.  I remember the first day you said you loved me and I remember that it took a long time, but it's scary at first because you don't know when that person's gonna come out and there's a possibility that that person might not come out.  Some people don't get as far as my father's gotten.  So, there's so many unknowns about it and I just wanna reassure people that it takes a lot of time but it will get better and he will be able to talk to you more and that he's in there, its just.  Just know that he's in there and he's gonna come out again.

Bob

Yeah, I remember working with this woman and and I can never remember anyone's name and I'd pretend well your.  I wouldn't know.  I told her for nine months maybe ten months I couldn't that Lee was her name.  I didn't have any idea what it is and all the people I don't I know lots of people and I can't tell it their name and and I feel kinda stupid but I don't lazy I just I can't do it and sometimes the woman who's teaching me she'll write don't, I'm gonna tell you your name Robert can you write that down.  She was kidding me around but she so many times she would just say I've got to tell you your brothers name or your daughters do you remember and sometimes its hard to remember what the names are

Louise

Yep, um another thing I wanted to talk about was the the roller coaster ride that you go on and my mother certainly can talk about this and its your moods and I think that when you're trying, when you're a caregiver and you're trying, to help someone over aphasia you alternate being totally optimistic to being totally in despair and um I think that you feel joy one day when you see the progress and um the next day can be totally different, it can be a day of despair and I think sometimes, at least I know for me is, that I had this feeling of dread for just months in the early parts in the early months because everything was just so uncertain and I think what's really hard is that, especially for someone like my mother who takes care of my father is that, you have to be really optimistic and up for the person to help them get better but at the same time you're thinking about worst case scenario and I think that's a really hard thing to juggle on a daily basis is being up so that the other person can be motivated.

Betty

Well I'd just say in a nutshell it is a roller coaster.  He'd be great for two days and when I mean great he was in a good mood he was doing his homework and then for three straight days he couldn't do anything and he'd be frustrated and angry and those are the worst times those and it was just like that.  I was constantly up and down up and down and that was really tough and then I was angry.  I had lost my life.  I had lost my previous life.  I got to be someone who depended on him for everything and now I was doing everything, a complete reversal and I could see that he, he, he did not like this at all that I was doing things that he always did and I understand him. He was, he was losing his manhood.  Almost like he couldn't do he couldn't drive anymore.  I had to drive him everywhere, out to restaurants and I'd have to uh order the menu or there are just so many things.  Like, we just went on a trip and I had to do all of the reservations and check into the hotel and I never have done these things before.  Rent a car, these are things I've never done and I know, I think maybe it's just my age bracket, but I know that a lot of women of course have done these things, but I never had to because I had Bob to do all these things and now when you're doing all of these things for yourself it puts you in a whole different, I don't know, frame of mind.  I mean number one I don't like doing it but I have to.  I don't think Bob likes me doing it but he has no alternative.  So, I think we've reached kind of like a nice area right now where you know if he wants to go any place I'll drive him, no problem, but he has lost his independence and that's one thing I really feel badly about but we can't do anything about it and we talk about that a lot.  We are where we are we can't do anything about it so lets go on.  You don't wanna be miserable everyday so we're not miserable everyday I think we have a pretty good existence right now

Bob

So, so.

Betty

So, so, Ok just so so, not pretty good just so so Ok. Ok.

Louise

OK, well.

Bob

Ok.

Louise

I have another one.

Bob

Oh God.

Betty

Oh Louise come on.

Louise

Hey all right just one more thing.  This is serious.  This is serious.  I wish we had had this and If there's a video out there somewhere that said bang bang bang this is what to expect and and you're normal.  Like, if anyone were to say to us this is completely normal what you are going through just hold on.  Even just those few words.  Ok, this is my last thing.  Um the last thing that was and that really affected me was the stages that you go through and I'd say when someone you love has a stroke and then you learn they have aphasia is I think, like a lot of things, like even with death is shock and then denial and anger and grieving and I think the thing that I found one of the most difficult is was grieving and I know that my mother and I talked about this, she lived with me here for about a month when my father was in rehab, is you feel like you've lost the person even though they're physically still here and that was really hard for me and I know that a lot of things that I read about grieving to try to get through it was that it takes about six to twelve months to come to terms with a lose and I think that's really true and I can say even to my sixth or eighth month after my father had a stroke I still felt grieving.  It was really hard and it was hard because the person is still here but they're really not here.  They're different, they can't talk to you like they could the day before or the morning before and I would say to people that are going through this is that that's normal and its really hard to deal and I think that has a lot to do with the fact too that they can't communicate and you don't know whether they're gonna come out again and talk to you again even like my father's talking to us now and I um I found that part very very difficult.  It was almost like a death for a few months and then things got better again, but I'd say to people that that's normal what you're gonna go through.

Mores

Yeah

Bob

OK.